Leah Wyman: discussion and interveiw
The Now Body Image Survey
Part
Three
From
Now Body Image Survey:
4.)
What misconception of how women/girls are "supposed"
to look would you most like to see disappear forever?
Almost
everyone who answered expressed frustration with the idea that
all women should be thin. Women and girls feel bombarded with
the cultural myth that an anorexic "waif" look is
the ideal way to look sexy, healthy and attractive. One respondent
noted that "you are never small enough until you disappear
altogether." Many others pointed to the unrealistic Barbie
doll or Playboy-type body big breasts, narrow waists and long
legs.
Also
listed were the following: the expectation that women and even
girls have to look sexy, that body hair on women is considered
unattractive or unfeminine and must be shaved, the belief by
some that women who are physically strong or assertive are less
feminine, portrayals of women as submissive/passive, crippling
high heels, and the fact that any "supposed-to" look
exists at all.
Olivia :
The respondent, who answered, "you are never small enough
until you disappear altogether." raises an interesting point.
Do you think that on some level that this "disappearing"
is part of the fashion industries hatred of women? If so, could
you comment on the following quote that came up between me and
a 30ish heterosexual male? He said "Feminists love to blame
straight, white guys for the terrible images of women in the media
and impossible beauty standards. But if you think about fashion,
it’s all straight women being told what to wear by gay men.
We (straight guys) are attracted to whomever comes on to us, sorry
but it’s the truth, it’s the gay men that want women
to look like little boys in drag." Any thoughts?
Leah:
It’s an interesting point, I don’t know if I agree that
it is the root of the problem. I don’t think that it’s
really just the fashion industry, it’s the whole Entertainment
Industry. Look at pin-ups, even Victoria’s Secret catalogues
and Playboy all those kind of things are aimed at men, you still
see very skinny women. I don’t know that it’s even a
hatred of women or if it’s this idea that feminine is associated
with being weak and small. Physically small is weak. An example
is that there was a controversy over a bar in San Diego that had
all kinds of naked pictures up on the wall and some people argued
that it was sexist. The bar owner said that they had pictures
up of both men and women. I was speaking to another professor
who teaches gender issues about this, she said that it was still
sexist because if you look at a supposedly sexy picture of a naked
woman and of a naked man they represent very different things.
The male body is large and muscular; the female body is very small
and tight. His body represents strength, hers represents weakness.
Olivia :
What do you think this says about heterosexual male sexuality
in terms of seeking weakness as a means to sexual arousal?
Leah:
We’ve been socialized to think to think of sexuality as male
dominance and female submission. I keep saying "socialized"
because I do not think that these are innate tendencies. So men
are socialized to think of sex as something that confirms their
power, something that makes them feel dominant and strong and,
that the act of sex is like a conquest. In order to have that
happen, the woman needs to be weak, submissive, almost a target.
Olivia :
While women can, and do, look really hot in sports gear or
really casual clothes, and I know this is true for myself and
many of my friends, when we put on a cocktail dress and French
hosiery for example, it creates a different emotion, like a chemical
reaction. Is this innate or a manufactured emotion?
Leah:
I don’t think there is anything innate to it because if you
look at the biological theories they use to try to explain it
you find a lot of bias. It used to be believed that in fertilization,
the sperm sought out the egg, captured and penetrated it as the
egg was trying to get away. Then they found that the egg actually
sends out a chemical that reels in the sperm. And the sperms instinct
is to try to swim away from that chemical. The egg is the aggressor
in fertilization but we never hear about that. It goes to show
that when we use biology to explain our sexuality, it can be very
biased. We are taught to associate certain paraphernalia with
feeling sexy and for women that’s nylon’s and high heels
and a sexy dress. Those are the props, I guess you could say,
for feeling sexy. And men have been taught other things. It’s
like a Pavlov’s dog kind of thing.
From
Now Body Image Survey:
5)
What can NOW and feminists do in general to help promote healthier
attitudes about women’s and girl’s bodies? Most popular
answers:
- Educate
at a young age, targeting grade school and junior high school
students
-
Speak out against negative portrayals of women and girls in
the media; write letters and send petitions to the offenders
- Refrain
from calling other women "fat" or other negative
names
- Don’t
say "I’m fat," "I’m ugly," "I
look awful," around your daughters; set an example for
girls/young women that looks are not the measure of some one’s
worth
-
Don’t support businesses that promote harmful products
or attitudes
- Pressure
companies to use more realistic models to sell their products
- Stop
buying fashion magazines that portray women as wire hangers
- Create
our own positive media images through campaigns like Love
Your Body Day
- BE
YOURSELF, LOVE YOURSELF
Olivia :
Though I have come across certain web sites, for example,
that contains highly sexualized violence against women, most of
what I’ve seen labeled as "Pornography" is basically
one or more nude people having some form of sexual pleasure. In
terms of NOW’s policy on sex work and pornography, what is
it about explicit sexual images that mainstream feminists object
to?
Leah:
Its two things, one is that explicit sexual images used to be
done so that they catered to men’s fantasies, not female
fantasies. And, in so doing, sometimes they were degrading to
women. In a lot of X rated movies the women were made to look
very stupid, air heads. They would show positions that would feel
good for men but not necessarily for women, that kind of thing.
And again, there’s the dominant/submissive sort of thing
happening. So there are still some objections and rightfully so
with some of it.
Olivia :
So it’s not the sexual imagery itself as much as it is
the context within which it is presented?
Leah:
Right. Sexual imagery can be so many different things. Some feminists
make the mistake of lumping it all together instead of realizing
that it’s all different. Even with X rated movies; they’re
not all the same. There is a huge range (of pornography/erotica).
It’s like throwing out the baby with the bath water in that
because there is some bad and sadistic stuff out there and there
is a tendency to think that all sexual imagery is exploits women.
Olivia :
There have been studies conducted on female sexual fantasy
that revealed that of women who consider themselves to be feminists
also have rape fantasies, fairly consistent with the general female
population average for this question. With regard to cultural
depictions of rape, do you think that it is dangerous to depict
these fantasies for public consumption and if so, why?
Leah:
An expression that I’ve heard that I like is that there is
a difference between having a rape fantasy and fantasizing about
rape. Those are two very different things. When someone is having
a rape fantasy it is happening all in their head, it’s something
that they have total control over, totally autonomous. The fact
that you are fantasizing about it means that you are consenting
to the fantasy so it’s not really even rape. But when you
take that and turn it into a painting or a film, that’s not
the case anymore, it’s not happening in the mind of someone
who can control it, it’s scenes that the viewer is sitting
down watching and that voyeurism totally changes it. It’s
no longer a rape fantasy it makes it a rape.
Olivia :
Do you think that these types of images (sexualized violence)
triggers violence against women?
Leah:
I don’t think it causes it. Someone isn’t going to watch
a rape porn film then go out and rape a woman. It’s not that
direct but I think it can confirm attitudes and values that are
already in place, and strengthen them. So if someone is not that
sympathetic to rape victims to begin with and tends to think that
rape is just a kinky form of sex, then watching this kind of thing
just validates that, it rationalizes it for them. Also there’s
guys who are naive and don’t really know anything about rape,
watching those kinds of movies can certainly shape their perception.
Olivia :
Regarding the feminist concept of "Choice," if women
are capable of making choices for themselves in the post-sex (pregnancy
and abortion) phase, why are feminists not supporting women’s
choice to be a sex worker? Don’t they need support even more
than most, as their profession is illegal and therefore much more
dangerous?
Leah:
I don’t think that most feminists have a problem with what
they do (sex workers) per se, its not her actions that they have
a problem with, but the effect that they think that those actions
have on society. I think that’s what the concern is. Also,
some think that being a prostitute, for example, is contributing
to society viewing women as an object instead of as people and
it’s makes a commodity of women’s sexuality. It makes
the vagina something that is bought and sold. I favor decriminalization
(of prostitution) but these are arguments against it. What I’ve
always had a problem with is strip clubs, even though I think
women should have every legal right to do it. The problem I have
with it is that it puts the power aspect into sexuality in a way
that I think could harm women. Prostitution bothers me less because
you have one man and one woman having sex, in the strip club you
have one naked woman in a room full of clothed men, I see a real
power imbalance going on there. The behaviors and attitudes that
the men encourage in each other in those places are what could
be harmful to women. But having a concern about it is not the
same as saying that women should not be allowed to do it.
Olivia :
I was speaking with an exotic dancer recently about this very
thing. Her response was, "They’re (the men in strip
clubs) a bunch of suckers. I take off my clothes and they give
me all of their money. I leave ‘em hard and frustrated and
I have a pocket full of cash and a smile on my face."
Leah:
Sure. But as far as what it contributes to our society, the mentality
that the men have in there is the mentality that they are going
to leave with. I wonder how that affects society. I have less
problem, as I said, with prostitution and with pornography. I
mean in strip clubs, you have one woman and fifty men in the room.
The women are completely exposed and men are not at all exposed.
There is no mutual act, she is just serving them or at least that’s
what they are thinking. In prostitution and pornography you are
seeing two (or more) people involved in sex. There is mutual participation.
Olivia :
I see that sex as the Final Feminist Frontier. Do you think
it would be healthy for our society to have an influx of women
in the male dominated Sex Industry as producers of content, films,
painting etc.?
Leah:
As far as films absolutely. It’s about time that X-rated
movies were made in such a way that they show things that women
enjoy watching. It’s great, the idea to make movies that
give women pleasure. I think that would be a very liberating thing.
A problem with prostitution is that the purpose is not to give
women pleasure, it’s not to help women enjoy their sexuality.
The purpose is to serve men. So yes, women are making money off
of it which is nice, but I still don’t know if I would see
that as liberating.
Olivia :
How is the dynamic different between a heterosexual strip
club and, say, a lesbian club that features strippers?
Leah:
The dynamic is very different I would think. I haven’t been
to one but still it seems that in this case, women are serving
women so you could say that’s a little more pro-feminist
right there because women’s sexuality is being used to give
women pleasure instead of men so I could support that a little
bit easier. Also, you don’t have the same power dynamic.
Women haven’t been socialized to think of sex as a dominant
show of power as men have been. Women typically don’t get
raped by other women, so there is less of a threat. I don’t
imagine that the women watching are making the same kind of comments
that men watching would make.
Olivia :
Not generally, no. It’s more of an interactive fantasy.
Lesbian strip clubs don’t have that predatory edge to them.
You’d mentioned (in previous discussion) that you found a
Lesbian S & M booth at the NOW Conference (July 1999, Los
Angeles). Their slogan was " Safe, Sane and Consenting."
As a feminist, do you think that women involved in S & M and
fetishes can really be a feminist?
Leah:
Certainly. Their slogan is a very good one. They mean safe in
that it needs to be with someone that you know would not really
hurt you and would respect your limits. So you need to do it with
someone who you trust would stop if you asked them to. Sane means
that you don’t do it when you are on drugs or drinking, only
when you are of sound mind and body. And consenting is of course,
mutually consenting to it. What they were saying is that it’s
only considered S & M or, healthy S & M, under those circumstances.
Under those circumstances it can be pro-feminist. A point that
I brought up with them, which they agreed with, was that when
you see it (S & M) in a movie or a picture, those factors
aren’t there. If I watch a movie of a man whipping a woman
or vise versa, I don’t know their relationship, I don’t
know if there is trust there that they would stop when the other
wants them to. I don’t know that they aren’t on drugs
so if you are seeing it in the context of entertainment, it really
doesn’t qualify (as safe and consenting S & M). They
made the point that it doesn’t really feel like what it looks
like.
Olivia :
When you say that something is demeaning to women, what do
you mean by the term "demeaning?"
Leah:
To me it’s anything that is humiliating to a woman, anything
mocking, anything that makes us want to laugh at her. Anything
that is intentionally disrespectful of a woman is what comes to
mind.
Olivia :
Thank you so much Leah. It was a great pleasure to speak with
you.
Leah:
Thank you, it was my pleasure.
NOW’s
Body Images Survey Readers Results: Fall 1998 - Compiled by Alyssa
Wilmot, Publications Intern in conjunction with NOW Foundation’s
Love Your Body Day. NOW asked readers to voice their opinions
on the portrayal of women and girls in Popular culture. More than
200 respondents sent in thoughtful answers along a wide spectrum
of body image issues. Click here for a summary of the results.
To
learn more about NOW -- Follow
this hyperlink to access the National NOW web site
Excerpts
re-printed with the kind permission of the National Organization
for Women.
1
| 2 | 3
|
